I'm going to kick myself for this... (pump)

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Before you start reading this, I am not interested in the following kinds of comments:

  • You should be on the pump regardless of your feelings towards it
  • You will have better control while on the pump
  • You're stupid for not already being on the pump
  • etc

 

FYI..this is gonna be a long read! haha. I would have put it in the "pump" section..but due to the 18+ nature of one of my concerns, I felt that wouldn't be appropriate.

I'm probably gonna end up kicking myself for this..but I have been thinking about it for a few days, and with Heather's thread where I found out you can do a month trial..there isn't really much to stop myself except my own fear of technology giving me insulin and my feelings about having something attached to me 24/7.

I have my next endo appointment mid-July and I was planning on asking about trying the CGMS for a month or so anyways..so I might as well discuss doing a trial of the pump again(he brought up the topic about two-three years ago and when I flat our refused, dropped it)..just to have a more vaild reason for not wanting the pump other than "I am not comfortable relying on a computer to give me my medication".

I was even talking about it on my "date" last night. He went to school with two girls who had the pump, and his last serious relationship was with this co-worker of ours(well ex-co-worker for me) who has T1 diabetes. We worked at the same grocery store, only when I worked there he had moved to another of the chain locations, but is now back..so we know a lot of the same people..including my brothers who both worked at the same location as me. He lived with her for over a year, so he was pretty comfortable talking about it and brought it up!

The funny thing is, he was puzzled about the same things I was, and even freaked out by the same things I was!

My five main concerns:

  • Sleeping
  • Swimming/Exercising/Hot Tubs/Disconnecting
  • Having tubing (GAH!)
  • Sex
  • Insulin

Sleeping - I can be a very violent sleeper at times..especially when my blood sugar is low..last night? I woke up and elbowed my friend in the ribs when I spazzed out over the nightmare that had woken me up. I got some juice and got back into bed, then woke up a few minutes later, and jabbed them again..as the nightmare started where it left off! Always by mistake, but it usually happens when I have nightmares(this one happened to involve a pump at one point!..but it was someone else coming to me and asking about their pump screwing up and what to do..haha).
I also roll around a lot in my sleep. I know you can attach it to your PJs..but I sleep in my underwear/the buff more often than not..which makes me wonder..what happens if someone is sleeping in bed with me(whether or not I have clothes on haha) or we're spooning..what if they bump it or roll onto it or something? what happens?!

Swimming/Excerising/Hot Tubs/Disconnecting - I know you disconnect for swimming..but what about sports or excerising? I don't play on any teams..but one of my BIGGEST fear is being out with my friends at the beach and playing a game and having someone knock into me and it ripping out! My "date" said that one of the girls from highschool had a member of the opposite soccer team target her pump to injure her during the game!
What about going out to the clubs and dancing..will I always have to make a pouch in my dresses/skirts? What a hassle! What if I decide to go to a metal show and go into the mosh pit?! FREAKS ME OUT!
What about hot tubs? Saunas? I love hot tubs.
If I'm always having to disconnect and it's a huge hassle too..that's enough to make me not want it.

Tubing - The idea of having tubing sticking out of me freaks me out as well. I know people have said they are asked about their "cellphone" and no one knows it's a pump for the most part..but the fact that it's there..it's visible..it makes my diabetes visible..is a real discomfort for me. I take pride if being able to appear like everyone else..until I tell someone or whip out a needle! I don't feel my medic bracelet makes it obvious I'm different..since so many people have them for allergies and such..but having obvious tubing and a device attached to me..makes me feel a little weird to think about. But mostly I'm just freaked out about having tubing and the chance it will get ripped out..even if those chances are slim.
I've heard horror stories(and seen pictures) of blood gushing out when it's changed, massive bruising, having them get ripped out and blood gushing everywhere...

Sex - We're all adults..so let's be honest we have sex!
I'm very active sexually because I have a very high sexdrive..I'm not ashamed to admit it. When not in a relationship, it varies from week to week but I have generally have a few encounters a week. When in a relationship, it's everyday or close to it, and usually several times a day.
I obviously didn't tell my "date" this, but we both wonder what you do during sex! The girls he knew in highschool were not seeing anyone and as far he knew not having sex yet..so he was just as confused and concerned as I was on the topic. His ex-gf was using the MDI method, just like I am, while their relationship.
Do you disconnect and then connect again afterwards? What if you wake up in the middle of the night for a romp? Do you go "oh just give me a second to disconnect.." and then do it haha? I like sponantous sex sometimes..what happens then? Does it always have to be planned? What happens if you don't disconnect? I don't wanna be stuck with one position because I'm too scared to move around if I've kept it connected..and what happens if they knock it or lean on it?! I generally have pretty rough sex and often come out with bruises and marks...but I don't wanna come out of it with a ripped out pump!!

Insulin - What are the chances it will give me the wrong dose of insulin? I've tried the pens in the past..and the first injection went okay but the second time I ended up having to stay home because somehow I got way more insulin then I had turned the dial(it was obvious by how much was left in the vial) and we freaked out! I ended up shovelling food into my body before the insulin kicked in to prevent a low!
Probably the biggest of my five concerns is relying on a device to give me insulin. I'm so used to MDI and knowing how much I'm taking because I can SEE how much I'm taking. I also know that sometimes technology fucks up..and that scares me because something as simple as getting too much insulin or not enough insulin is a HUGE fuck up.

 

If I do end up going on a trial, I really think I'll end up going back to MDI..though you never know..but I'm still freaked out by even the idea of a 30-day trial still! I like change..but I don't like change that involves how I get my insulin. I guess the whole point is to discuss my concerns and figure out if they really are a problem..

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I forgot to mention that cost is not really a concern unless I keep it. I have insurance through work, and as of my last physio appointment..have raised the $1k of spending I have to do before they cover 100% of my supplies, prescriptions and physio appointments, etc. It states that diabetic supplies are covered, and I know I'd have to check to see which pump would be, etc..but I know they cover part of the pumping supplies. Might as well do a trial while I'm covered 100% now!

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hey Natalie.... you sound just like me few months ago.... I've had diabetes for more than 18 years and didn't want to hear anything about pumps till recently... I am not on a pump yet, but will be in 3 weeks. I don't know if I will like it enough, not to go back on shots, but I finally warmed up to the idea of trying it. My HA1C is 7, and I am comfortable taking shots, but I want to get pregnant again and need much tighter control (at least I was told that with the pump it will happen). So I chose Omnipod. Have you looked at it? There are no tubes!!!! So already some of your main concerns disappear...  I got lots of demo pumps, so I can wear it and get used to it. I love it so far... I am comfortable sleeping, don't feel it at all at night. You do not have to disconnect if you're swimming or exercising. I do not know anything about Hot Tubs, I love that too... and will definitely call omnipod and ask...  It was also very important for me to be able to have sex whenever and not by "appointment". Again, it didn't bother me a bit and it was my breaking point to agreeing go on a pump. I did have severe allergy to the adhesive in the beginning, and I stopped putting it on for a month or so, but I continued again and now it seems to be fine. I just hope I will stay as optimistic as I am now after going live on a pump.

Now that I am finished writing, I realized that Omnipod might not be available in Canada.....  If it's available, just try demo pumps for few days and see how you feel...

 

Good Luck!!!!

 

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For the pumps with no tubing, I don't really get how it works..like how do you get the insulin?

I still have to check into what pumps are available in canada..

5

check this out

http://www.myomnipod.com/

Insulet company gives you 45 days trial period, and if you do not like it, they return money....

6

I did a quick check and it looks like its not available in canada :(

7

I was thinking about going on the CGMS first before a pump to get used to how it feels to have something on me all the time.  I know it doesnt have tubing or anything, but I think it might give you a decent idea since you are looking into one anyways.  That way you can take it off if you need to, but can try out what it's like always having something.  I am pretty excited about trials with pumps too, because as much as I want one, I don't want to hate it and regret all the money spent on it. 

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[quote user="Heather Cole"]

I was thinking about going on the CGMS first before a pump to get used to how it feels to have something on me all the time.  I know it doesnt have tubing or anything, but I think it might give you a decent idea since you are looking into one anyways.  That way you can take it off if you need to, but can try out what it's like always having something.  I am pretty excited about trials with pumps too, because as much as I want one, I don't want to hate it and regret all the money spent on it. 

[/quote]

yeah I wanna try the CGMS for sure because I think it will help me and my endo get my levels down more, since we're still struggling with my lunch dose(my highest bloodsugar is always pre-dinner and my lows are always during the night!). I wish the pod was available in Canada..I was telling my mom about it last night and she was like "can i get one of my friends in the states to order it?!" she thinks trying it is a good idea, even if I don't keep it, but is just as "erm" about the tubing! I think not having tubes would likely raise the chances that I won't get fed up one day and rip it out myself! haha.

The cost is definately a huge thing yeah, and it's nice to know they give you a month to try it out..though I bet two months would be more useful! A month is a short time to tell if it works better or not considering how much training you have to take, but I guess it's more likely people will forget to return it or something if they only have it for a month.

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When I was having lots of lows in the night (or eating pretty much another full meal before bed with no bolus so they would stay up), I switched my Lantus to taking it in the morning.  You would have to increase your ratio in the morning (or I did anyways) because stupid hormones kick in in the morning.  Yah 2 months would be nice for sure.  I am not too worried about how the insulin thing works, because I am sure I will figure it out eventually, I am worried about whether or not I would like to have it on me all the time.  After 30 days of constant pump on belt I think I will know for sure whether I will be able to handle it or I will be ripping my site out everytime I pee because I forget it's hooked to my pants haha.  You will have to let me know what you decide to do!

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I've gone back and forth between split doses and one dose of lantus. We just switched it from 15 in the AM and 15 in the PM back to 20 in the AM and 10 in the PM because I was getting too many lows after I took my AM dose! We tried the one dose a day in the AM..but my dinner levels rose way higher, and my endo decided I was like 90% of the diabetics he's known of who can't take only one dose of long-acting. I've always had to have mine split, even as a kid. I think we're going to raise my lunch ratio next, but first I wanna try teh CGMS to see what's going on.

 

I don't think I'll rip it out by mistake..it's most likely I'd rip it out while going "this f-ing thing! ugggh!"

 

I'll post an update once I see him in July of course :)

11

Hi Batts -  It took me almost 5 years to finally decide to go on a pump so ur not alone.   Am I glad I did? Yes, but it's your feelings that are the most important here.  I am on a Medtronic Minimed 722.  I tried the OmniPod for the 30 day period and it wasn't for me.  I'm kind of a tech geek and I loved the fact that I can download all my info from my pump onto my PC - see all kinds of charts and graphs etc- if I'm having issues I can e-mail it to my doc btwn appointments and she'll give me adjustments to make.  

As far as sleeping goes, I've never really had an issue - just wear it on my waist band-on the hip - they have straps to wear on your arm, leg etc if you have nothing to clip it to.  The only bad thing is waking up on it at times and I have a pump inprint on me but it's never malfunctioned from that.  It's never gotten in the way for me and my wife - cuddling, sex whatever, it hasn't been an issue.  I just detach the tubing and leave it where it is - you get used to it, sometimes my wife doesn't even know when I took it off. 

With swimming or in the hot tub... with the one I have, there is a cap to the port so I put that on and go.  I live in Los Angeles and go to the beach all the time and I've never even have a sand issue.  I was told not to go in the hot tub when I was on the OmniPod but that may have changed - I don't know.  With the 722, again, I just throw the cap on and go.  

As for me, I haven't had problems with the tubing - an occasional bleeder here or there but as long as you move the site around you should be okay (maybe different for women with less surface area).  I have caught the tubing here and there on a cabinet knob or handle but it's never pulled out.  I always use extra adhesive to help too.

I haven't had an issue with the pump giving me the wrong dose either.  My basil rate only changes if I do it and if the bolus is off, it's because I entered in the wrong info.  Maybe someone else has had a different experience or issues with their insulin delivery on the pump???

Hope that helps a bit - good luck.

12

[quote user="Doug Deatrick"]

Hi Batts -  It took me almost 5 years to finally decide to go on a pump so ur not alone.   Am I glad I did? Yes, but it's your feelings that are the most important here.  I am on a Medtronic Minimed 722.  I tried the OmniPod for the 30 day period and it wasn't for me.  I'm kind of a tech geek and I loved the fact that I can download all my info from my pump onto my PC - see all kinds of charts and graphs etc- if I'm having issues I can e-mail it to my doc btwn appointments and she'll give me adjustments to make.  [/quote]

I'm a Mac user..and my mom's PC is always having to get wiped because it collects viruses almost monthly..so having the ability to download even with my UltraSmart meter, has never been of use to me. My endo doesn't even look at the charts when I did hook my meter up and printed out the logbook. When we e-mail him, as we do between appointments as well, we just list the numbers and he likes it better that way. I like the idea of the OmniPod, from looking at it because there's no tubing..but alas, I have no choice to even try it in Canada =/

[quote]

As far as sleeping goes, I've never really had an issue - just wear it on my waist band-on the hip - they have straps to wear on your arm, leg etc if you have nothing to clip it to.  The only bad thing is waking up on it at times and I have a pump inprint on me but it's never malfunctioned from that.  It's never gotten in the way for me and my wife - cuddling, sex whatever, it hasn't been an issue.  I just detach the tubing and leave it where it is - you get used to it, sometimes my wife doesn't even know when I took it off.  [/quote]

I'm relieved to hear it's not a problem for stuff like that, but I'm still not sold on the whole going to bed in the buff and having to wear a waist band or an arm band...

[quote]With swimming or in the hot tub... with the one I have, there is a cap to the port so I put that on and go.  I live in Los Angeles and go to the beach all the time and I've never even have a sand issue.  I was told not to go in the hot tub when I was on the OmniPod but that may have changed - I don't know.  With the 722, again, I just throw the cap on and go.   [/quote]

Cap it? You mean put it into a water safe case??

[quote]As for me, I haven't had problems with the tubing - an occasional bleeder here or there but as long as you move the site around you should be okay (maybe different for women with less surface area).  I have caught the tubing here and there on a cabinet knob or handle but it's never pulled out.  I always use extra adhesive to help too.

I haven't had an issue with the pump giving me the wrong dose either.  My basil rate only changes if I do it and if the bolus is off, it's because I entered in the wrong info.  Maybe someone else has had a different experience or issues with their insulin delivery on the pump???[/quote]

Most of the horror stories I've heard were back when my endo was first asking me to try it or consider it..and the technology was extremely new..so it could just have been that..but it's still a huge worry for me. I don't bruise much as it is when I take injections, and I rarely ever bleed..so the idea of possibly having hideous brusies isn't fun..especially at my age and already having some body issues!

For insulin doses screwing up I know it's rare, but it's still something that makes me nervous even with the low chances of it happening..I will probably spend the month freaking out and double checking what it's giving me...if I do end up doing a trial that is.

 

 

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What I meant by the cap (sorry, bad terminology on my part) was that with the particular 'infusion set' I use, I am able to disconnect the tubing at the hub.  It is difficult to explain but if you click on this link   http://www.minimed.com/swf/infusionsets/index.html  and move your curser over the "Quick-Set" tab (top of the 3 tabs in the middle of the page, you'll have a visual of what I'm trying, (very ineptly I know), to say.  There is an extra round cap, similar to the one in the pic, that comes with the infusion set.  Just attach it to the hub that is still on you and it seals it from dirt, water,  or whatever getting in it.  

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sorry - and when the page comes up - click on #4 at the bottom, then scroll over the quick-sert

15

oooh okay i get it now. thats a bit easier!

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Hey,

I had the exact same concerns as you before I got my first pump.  I have been on the pump for 6 years now and and works for me.  I was in college when I first got it and one concern was where to put it.  I didn't want wires or even the pump itself sticking out.  I discovered that it fits nicely in my bra right in the middle of my chest.  I have worn it there everyday since I got it.  No one ever knows I have it and the wires never stick out.  Believe me, you find ways to hide it.  When I wear dresses I put the pump in a homemade garter belt around my leg.  As far as swimming and sex, it is super easy to disconnect.  I have a minimed and it takes about 2 seconds to disconnect.  When I sleep I just clip it on my clothes.  I move a lot in my sleep and I have never had any problems.  I have had the clip slip off my clothes a few times but that is the worst thing that has happened.  I hope this helps!  Good luck with your decision!

17

Hey Batts,

You have some real concerns here, so let me see if I can help a little ... First lets take a breather! haha breathe in breathe out ahhhh LOL

Just to give you a little background, I was diagnosed Nov. 2000 MDI for 1 Yr. pumping for 7, wow going to be 8 this year whoa! Anyway, I am going to try and answer your questions. here we go:

Sleeping - I can be a very violent sleeper at times..especially when my blood sugar is low..last night? I woke up and elbowed my friend in the ribs when I spazzed out over the nightmare that had woken me up. I got some juice and got back into bed, then woke up a few minutes later, and jabbed them again..as the nightmare started where it left off! Always by mistake, but it usually happens when I have nightmares(this one happened to involve a pump at one point!..but it was someone else coming to me and asking about their pump screwing up and what to do..haha).
I also roll around a lot in my sleep. I know you can attach it to your PJs..but I sleep in my underwear/the buff more often than not..which makes me wonder..what happens if someone is sleeping in bed with me(whether or not I have clothes on haha) or we're spooning..what if they bump it or roll onto it or something? what happens?!

SLEEPING Answer - As far as sleeping the wire is pretty long and you can put it on the side of you if you are in the buff and hook it on to your underwear or whatever you are wearing. I sleep in the buff sometimes myself (TMI) and have never had problems with my husband rolling on it during spooning. If they bump it or roll on it, it really isnt a big deal anyway. Its not like the pump will deliver any extra insulin, you have to physcially press the buttons, so I doubt anything bad will happen.

Swimming/Excerising/Hot Tubs/Disconnecting - I know you disconnect for swimming..but what about sports or excerising? I don't play on any teams..but one of my BIGGEST fear is being out with my friends at the beach and playing a game and having someone knock into me and it ripping out! My "date" said that one of the girls from highschool had a member of the opposite soccer team target her pump to injure her during the game!
What about going out to the clubs and dancing..will I always have to make a pouch in my dresses/skirts? What a hassle! What if I decide to go to a metal show and go into the mosh pit?! FREAKS ME OUT!
What about hot tubs? Saunas? I love hot tubs.
If I'm always having to disconnect and it's a huge hassle too..that's enough to make me not want it.

Swimming/Excerising/Hot Tubs/Disconnecting Answer - As far as swimming yea you have to disconnect/reconnect a lot. I am not going to lie to you, having the pump in the summer is a huge PIA. It is probably the only time I really wished I wasn't on it, when I go away on vacation or to the beach or swimming my numbers are very erractic and you have to check a lot and take the insulin that you missed while you were swimming to make up for it etc... You don't play any contact sports so I wouldn't worry about some girl targeting you to rip your pump out, You go with your friends and if they target you to hurt you on purpose I def. would want them as friends anymore. 

Exercising: I don't play sports but I work out around 3-4 times a week and I used to take my pump off completely during a workout because when I exercise I don't need any insulin. My workout natural lowers me. Now, I just put a temporary basal rate of 0% and keep it hooked up to my pants still. I also keep it on because I wear a Minimed pump and have the MM CGM so while I am working out I know if I am going low or not, it really is a life saver on occasions because before I had no idea I was dropping but now my pump starts alarming with arrows going down which means my blood sugars are dropping rapidly and basically tells me "hey! go drink some juice or you are goinig to bottom out!"

Hot tubs- You will have to disconnect in a hot tub the same way as swimming. Someone else said you can put the  cap on it which is true. I have gone in hot tubs that way numerous times. Note that they say people that have type 1 diabetes shouldn't stay in hot tubs that long because you are at higher risk for hypoglycemia. Personally I have never had a hypo after a hot tub soak but,  I guess maybe I wasn't in that long.

CGM- You mentioned that you would consider wearing a cgm and that is great! I highly recommend it to people who are ready for it. The data that it provides is really great and it is even better for people that have sever hypoglycemia.  It is not to replace checking your blood sugar though. You still have to calibrate it at least 3-4 times with a finger stick.  It takes a lot of work to keep up with the CGM be prepared that  a lot of the day it is beeping constantly and it can  drive you crazy. Sometimes the sensors don't work properly and at night the alarming can keep you up all night long. Just want to prepare you for things that will happen, just so you know.

Tubing - The idea of having tubing sticking out of me freaks me out as well. I know people have said they are asked about their "cellphone" and no one knows it's a pump for the most part..but the fact that it's there..it's visible..it makes my diabetes visible..is a real discomfort for me. I take pride if being able to appear like everyone else..until I tell someone or whip out a needle! I don't feel my medic bracelet makes it obvious I'm different..since so many people have them for allergies and such..but having obvious tubing and a device attached to me..makes me feel a little weird to think about. But mostly I'm just freaked out about having tubing and the chance it will get ripped out..even if those chances are slim.
I've heard horror stories(and seen pictures) of blood gushing out when it's changed, massive bruising, having them get ripped out and blood gushing everywhere...

Tubing - As far as tubing, you can tuck it into your pants. There is no reason for it to be out at anytime. Noone ever knows I have my pump on, I just clip it to my pants with the case you have NO IDEA it is a pump. There are other options to hiding it especially for women: Your bra - which is what i do when i have to go to special occasions or wear dresses. In your sock: If you are wearing slacks or jeans you can get those tight knee highs and stick the pump in the part where your calf is. It is easy to get to and noone knows its there. Depending on how opaque the sock is you d ont even have to take the pump out of the sock you can press the buttons right through it.There  are also pump pouches that you can wear around your arm, thigh and calf they have one for the waist too.

Sex - We're all adults..so let's be honest we have sex!
I'm very active sexually because I have a very high sexdrive..I'm not ashamed to admit it. When not in a relationship, it varies from week to week but I have generally have a few encounters a week. When in a relationship, it's everyday or close to it, and usually several times a day.
I obviously didn't tell my "date" this, but we both wonder what you do during sex! The girls he knew in highschool were not seeing anyone and as far he knew not having sex yet..so he was just as confused and concerned as I was on the topic. His ex-gf was using the MDI method, just like I am, while their relationship.
Do you disconnect and then connect again afterwards? What if you wake up in the middle of the night for a romp? Do you go "oh just give me a second to disconnect.." and then do it haha? I like sponantous sex sometimes..what happens then? Does it always have to be planned? What happens if you don't disconnect? I don't wanna be stuck with one position because I'm too scared to move around if I've kept it connected..and what happens if they knock it or lean on it?! I generally have pretty rough sex and often come out with bruises and marks...but I don't wanna come out of it with a ripped out pump!!

Sex - If you wear a pump yes when you have sex your partner right off the bat knows you are diabetic you will have to probably explain that you have diabetes and if you don't really like people knowing they will definitely know if you have no clothes on haha For you, since you have so much sex you will probably have to disconnect/reconnect. When disconnecting you just do it. (no pun intended) it takes a second to twist it off. And then get back to business. You definitely do not have to plan on when you have sex.

If you dont disconnect, depending on whats happening you will have to just manuever around with it, think of it like riding a bike for the first time at first you are really shaky then  you get the hang of it, then you are an expert biker. It sounds like you are pretty rough in the sak so I doubt you would want to keep it connected at all.

Insulin - What are the chances it will give me the wrong dose of insulin? I've tried the pens in the past..and the first injection went okay but the second time I ended up having to stay home because somehow I got way more insulin then I had turned the dial(it was obvious by how much was left in the vial) and we freaked out! I ended up shovelling food into my body before the insulin kicked in to prevent a low!
Probably the biggest of my five concerns is relying on a device to give me insulin. I'm so used to MDI and knowing how much I'm taking because I can SEE how much I'm taking. I also know that sometimes technology fucks up..and that scares me because something as simple as getting too much insulin or not enough insulin is a HUGE *** up.

Insulin - This is a piece of machinery and while it will never give you a wrong dose because you always pump in  everything except your basal rates which are your all day insulin rates the equvalent to  you taking lantus, other things can come up. You can put the infusion set in a bad site on your body and the insulin doesn't absorb through and wont give you any insulin or very little. In warmer weather the tape can come off and the infusion set can fall out without you knowing. Like I said it won't give you a wrong dose things can definitely cause your insulin absorbtion to be less. 

Hope this all helps and if you have other questions please let me know!

 

Gina

 

18

Thanks Gina, that was a lot of help :)

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No problem! I don't want to discourage you from getting a pump but, I do want you to know stuff happens. Don't get me wrong I love my pump but sometimes it does just get in the way of life and frustrates the hell out of me.

20

haha yeah i am going to give it a shot, but i really don't think i'll end up keeping it because i can see myself getting frusterated with it. i don't care about having to tell people i have diabetes, but having it sticking out and noticable makes me uncomfortable haha. i'll have to figure that out during my trial.

i'm still pissed that the omni pod isn't available in canada! im gonna have to ask my endo when he thinks it will be and possibly end up waiting and just trying the CGMS for a little bit to just try and help figure out where i need the extra insulin during the day.