Religion

[quote user="Wolf"]

C   what is a cradle catholic? someone who attends church on a holiday and takes up all the seats of the regular folk? 

You may not see Diabetes as a punishment but i do. We have one chance to live in life. And these are the cards we are dealt with. thats punishment to me.

God is not a "presence"  like you say. But hes not doing anything for us...

True "comfort" is being non diabetic for the rest of eternity.

In my opinion......there is  no God. God does not do tis to people

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I partially agree with this, but mainly because if there was a god then you would think he/she/it would not want its people to suffer. for example, starving kids/people in third world countries?

"Jesus would have helped this child (*pictured above is emaciated child*), but he was too busy helping your football team win the big game."

Let me expand on that since it is cynical as I meant it, but it might need explanation.

Personally, I believe that religion is going to be the reason that we, as a civilization, fail and do not survive. For example, we have the Catholic Church that is stuck back in the 17th Century. I mean they just pardoned Galileo back in 1992. Second, we have people who kill each other because of differing beliefs. That's one way to ensure we don't survive is to bomb or commit total genocide against people or groups of people who have different beliefs. Not to mention our own home-grown ultra-conservative fundies (fundamentalists) who refuse to do something, despite it being for the betterment of a person or advancement as a culture/society because of something written in a book that is "thousands of years old" and interpreting it literally. For example we have the mother and father whose daughter died of Type 1 Diabetes complications because instead of getting her medical help, the familiy prayed...where is your God then? Wonder what thoughts were going through her mind..."why is no one trying to help me?" Along with the fundies you can put the anti-stem cell people. I mean, what real "good" does stem cell research get us? Cure diseases? Really? Sorry but I'd rather live with Diabetes/Cancer/Alzheimers/<insert terminal/permanent disease here> rather than be cured.

Now I don't have anything against religious people or whatever they believe. What I do have a problem with is when someone either imposes what they believe on others or take their beliefs to such an extreme that people end up being needlessly hurt.

Flame me, hate me, whatever, that's my two cents.

i dont like religion. you know how little kids will make imaginary friends? its just like that but adding stories and holidays and whatever else. it gives you "someone" to talk to, offer you advice, help you thru lonelines.... also, its mind power or whatever its called. i read a story(a true story) about someone whos mom was very religious and when she couldnt get a lid off a jar, she would talk to god and ask him to help her get the lid off. then it would come off easily. it gives you determination.

[quote user="Pat"]

"Jesus would have helped this child (*pictured above is emaciated child*), but he was too busy helping your football team win the big game."

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haha i love it. sums up my thoughts on "god"!

[quote user="Batts"]

[quote user="Pat"]

"Jesus would have helped this child (*pictured above is emaciated child*), but he was too busy helping your football team win the big game."

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haha i love it. sums up my thoughts on "god"!

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hey! but what happened to the other team. people must be asking god to help their team win too!

[quote user="Courtenay"]

[quote user="Batts"]

[quote user="Pat"]

"Jesus would have helped this child (*pictured above is emaciated child*), but he was too busy helping your football team win the big game."

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haha i love it. sums up my thoughts on "god"!

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hey! but what happened to the other team. people must be asking god to help their team win too!

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I know you're prob just playing devil's advocate with that one, but the point is that this god character lets terrible things happen to people on a daily basis. I also find it ironic how when something terrible happens to someone else (or a group of someones) that the most common phrase heard is, "it is god's will," yet when something terrible happens to them it's "why god, why?" Talk to a rape victim or someone whose family has been taken tragically and tell them it was "god's will" that it happened.

yeah. i know. god is the imaginary friend who encouragess you in whatever you are doing.

To me, having beliefs is one thing.  The issue I have is that frequently the religious beliefs people hold have no justification behind them.  To use unjustified claims as a basis for actions is not a good idea, yet many change their lives in significant ways for these beliefs.  Everywhere else we require the burden of proof- if you claim someone committed a murder, demonstrate a decent explanation, if you believe in aliens, same thing.  No one complains if you debunk a "psychic" but religion is somehow supposed to be excluded from this element of reality.  Teaching anyone, especially children, that there is ever an acceptable time to stop questioning is ridiculous and dangerous.  For these reasons, I find cosmic fence-sitting unacceptable.  If someone demonstrates a theory that better explains gravity, I will evalutate the evidence.  If someone is able to produce evidence of Apollo, Jupiter, Isis, or even God, I will evaluate the evidence.  But not until then.  I was raised in a religious family, and was deeply involved in a church, so I understand many of the arguments from both sides.

I've been seeing this topic pop up here and there and have chosen not to respond until now.  As for me, I'm more in Brian's camp but I wasn't going to try to convice anyone there is a God.  We all believe what we are going to believe and I can respect some of your lines of thinking, don't agree but can respect it.  I am insulted though when certain comments are made - some of us have gone through very intense and trying times so I've got all the proof I need.  It really doesn't matter to me whether you have your proof or not.  I don't go to church often - I choose to keep it more on a personal level because that works for me. But you cannot generalize religions all into one category just like you can't with all diabetics or all Type 1's or all Type 2's.    I will now go play with my imaginary friend in the sandbox because it's very real to me.   

My child's diagnosis with T1 has not significantly altered my World View.  I have never believed in a "personal" god who will respond (or not) to individual prayers, but believe that each of us is a part of the greater creative force, and as such, have a great deal of choice in how we respond to external circumstances.  Our son has been given significant challenges in his young life, but who am I to wish that he had an "easier" life?  His challenges are a huge influence in forming who he is as an idividual, just as my challenges in my childhood influcenced who I have become.  And I love and cherish him just as he is.  Perhaps he is here, in this incredibly short life, to experience something that will influence the development of his soul, something that he chose before he was even born.  With no evidence one way or another, who are we to second-guess another's journey?  Anyone else's journey?  As long as your "invisible friend" is not trying to mess with my "invisible friend" or infringe on my liberties as a human being, I've got no argument with anyone's faith or beliefs.

Of course, I'd be much happier if "your god" let me buy beer and wine on Sunday here in Georgia.  "My god" doesn't have a problem with it.

Mo

 

[quote user="Monique H"]

Of course, I'd be much happier if "your god" let me buy beer and wine on Sunday here in Georgia.  "My god" doesn't have a problem with it.

Mo

 

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That made me laugh. Nice job, Mo.

"But you cannot generalize religions all into one category just like you can't with all diabetics or all Type 1's or all Type 2's.    I will now go play with my imaginary friend in the sandbox because it's very real to me. .  "

Thank you, Doug.  I am always impressed with how much hostility another person's spiritual perspective can elicit.  For some reason it is okay to condescend those who chose to believe in an omnipotent, loving, creator.  A person should seek out their own answers and  respectfully appreciate that not everyone will come to the same conclusion. Where's the love? Maybe in the sandbox.

Michelle

[quote user="Courtenay"]

yeah. i know. god is the imaginary friend who encouragess you in whatever you are doing.

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Wow.  Courtenay you are so smart for your age.

The "problem" (or interesting part) with religion and faith is that everyone sees it differently and has their own interpretation of it. To those who are faithful to a single religion, they see their beliefs as the truth and the only right way. When everyone believes they are right, we begin to have disputes--some leading to the major religious wars.

For most modern religions, God is a presence but he is not ruling or dictating life. Many believe in "free will" or the idea that while people are created in God's image, we are given the ability to think freely and make our own choices, despite the path God would like us to choose. In the Catholic religion, we are created in the likeness and image of God, but it is up to us to choose to be like God. As I understand it, for Catholics being "like God" simply means caring for others and sharing the possibility of hope through God.

Those in 3rd world countries and all the starving families of the world, do not choose to be in their position (I'm pretter certain no one would choose to live like that). However, God does not intervene because we would not be living a free life if He (she/it/whatever you want to call it) guided everything onto a single righteous path. "The beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair." To some extent, we have the ability to choose our own path for ourselves through the decisions we make. While we have no control over our parents, or living conditions, or what we are born into, we can make the choice in how we lead our life. Those who are graced with better situations, have the ability to attempt to change (or make better) the lives of those who suffer--which would be also be attempting to live life in God's image (because God would cares for everyone regardless).

I'm not necessarily saying I agree with what I just laid out, however I'm simply presenting the side I most commonly see. I don't see conversations on religion as being futile because it's still possible to have interesting and enlightening conversations. Everyone doesn't have to agree to have stimulating discussions. I'm not expecting anyone to change their minds about their religious or faith beliefs based on anything brought up in this thread, however there will be those whose interest has been peaked. For everyone, faith or faithlessness is a journey that will eventually be investigated. Depending on the conversation (and how it's presented), there are many who have been persuaded to change their minds. There is always a possibility to change one's thinking. Life would be pretty damn boring if we didn't have the ability to alter our own thoughts.

[quote user="Mad Evans"]

[quote user="Courtenay"]

yeah. i know. god is the imaginary friend who encouragess you in whatever you are doing.

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Wow.  Courtenay you are so smart for your age.

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thank you. ive been told that a lot. i had been thinking about the god stuff recently and thats what i came to conclusion

[quote user="C"]

Haha.  A cradle Catholic just means you were born and raised Catholic. Like I said, I realize not everyone will agree with me, and I respect you don't see things like I do. If you don't believe in God, you can't be angry at him for giving you diabetes. :o)

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C  i dont believe in God. im trying to make a point for those who do believe in a God.

i can care less bout religion. its all a crock. im not angry bout anything. it is what it is. to each his own.

[quote user="Wolf"]

Putting faith in God with diabetes is pointelss in my eyes. Why would a "God" punish us like this? Give Diabetes to some crackhead who does not care about his/her life. Give it to a suicidalist who does not want to be here in the first place. Let the suicidalist....who really wants to die...get a disease like Diabetes that can kill them fast. God should suffer the ones who choose to suffer. We choose to live good lives. Why should God choose a destiny like this for us? In my opinion this is why I cant stand religion. No matter how much you pray...it is what it is. 

 Scumbags never die. It seems as if they are untouchable.

I agree Paul G on one aspect....why do "bad" things happen to "good" people?

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  Did you really just put a what you call a "suicidalist" in the same category as a crackhead? Wow... ignorance of such a stament is so profound, this of course coming from one of those suicidalist people who you mentioned.

But anyways, nope never have, never will believe. I have no problem with a belief, but when you start looking at a group of papers stapled nicely togethor as proof of anything thats where I draw the line between sane and insane. The bible, koran, torah are not things people should be looking at as proof of anything, but people do. Religion just puts people into two groups. With us, or agianst us. Now if you follow that certain religion you with us, but if you follow a different religion or slightly different belief system or don't believe at all then your screwed in the other group.

 

[quote user="C"]Many believe in "free will" or the idea that while people are created in God's image, we are given the ability to think freely and make our own choices, despite the path God would like us to choose.[/quote]

C-

This may have nothing to do with what you were trying to say, but I figured I'd say it anyway. This statement brought to mind an analogy that I've come up with.

I'm sure everyone has heard that God has your whole life planned out before you were even born. And I'm sure many people wonder why some peoples' lives are so much worse than others. Like, if God had so-and-so's whole life planned out, then He surely knew that they would get involved in drugs/alcohol/crime/ect... so why did He have that planned for them, when this other person's life turned out wonderful and they are happy as can be?

I think everyone's life is based simply on the choices they make. This brings me to my analogy.

I see God's plan for us like a coloring page. You know, like those pictures in coloring books that we all loved when we were kids. I see his plan for us like the picture on the page. However, I think that it is our choice whether we take our time and be careful, so as not to color outside the lines. This is just like His plan for us. He designs the picture of our life, but our choices either make it inside the picture, or they spill outside the lines. It's all based on our choices.

I'm not saying that anyone will end up with a perfectly colored picture. Everyone makes mistakes and will go outside the lines at least a few times. But then there are some who just choose to fly through the coloring process and not care about how many times they go outside the lines.

So, there's my analogy. I tend to forget how much I'm writing until I'm finished. I'm sure I went completely off topic. Hopefully I didn't confuse anyone too much. (=

 

|†~*Sarah*~†|

fabulous analogy! i'm sure for some that paints a better picture (pun intended) for them ;o)

Thank you, C.