Wow, there are so many things to respond to.
Adam: "1) This IS the single largest spending bill in the history of our
nation. period. Nothing intellectually dishonest about it. If you
believe it will reduce the deficit...good luck."
Adam, I'm a news junky, and I've never heard anyone say this. But if you're right, please send me a resource. I doubt it, though. I mean, the amounts spent on defense! But I think it is possible that you and Travis are just addressing two different things. It IS true that the Bush tax cuts cost more than this health care bill does, waaaaaay more. However, that wasn't a spending bill, it was a tax cut for really rich people and corporations.
Adam: "rather than let the Gov't blow it (like it is by moving SS monies into
Health Care"
The government blow it on wars. But if you honestly think that giving everyone access to health care is "blowing it," then you and I just simply have very different values. That seems to unChristian.
Adam: "That takes a constitutional amendment. There are already cases filed in
court to stop this bill because it is a direct contradiction of the 10th
Amendment"
I don't think very many people are moved by this legalistic argument. I mean, the fact is, there's precedence there. You can disagree with the laws that have already been passed that did things like require everyone to educate children under a certain age, or face consequences, but it doesn't matter. That's not how our legal system works. You go with the precedence. I think that this case that was filed in Florida will rile up the tea-baggers, but I don't think it has a real chance in the courts.
Adam: "Taxes are not a wealth redistribution method, if you want them to be,
you are a socialist (and that is by definition)."
Well, no. Socialism is when the people own the means of production and national resources. So, like, if the government said to the oil companies, "Hey, this stuff is in the ground, it belongs to everyone, let's sell it and use the money to pay for health care, etc," THAT would be socialism.
Adam: "Church groups are but one of the many groups that are in place to help.
Pharma and Medical Device manufacturer companies also help with bills
for meds if you can't pay them. Hospitals and insurance companies will
work out reduced payments or payment plans to help you pay your bills.
When I was a collegiate athlete with diabetes and didn't have time for a
full time job, I took advantage of programs like these to help me pay
my COBRA bill that I had a hard time affording. I did not ask anyone
else to give me their tax money to do so."
Look, either way, you weren't paying your own way. You were taking charity. We all pay taxes. Why can't we get something that's actually helpful back?
I mean, when it comes down to it, here's the deal. More than 60% of bankruptcies are caused by hospitalizations. A lot of those people HAD insurance. When we pay taxes, we can pay for good stuff or bad stuff. EVERY other first world country has nationalized health care. And they're way ahead of us in the quality of care rating. Why now, you know, BE the best country in the world?! Let's take care of our own!
Okay, going way back now.
Rich: "
I am sad to read you had trouble with the mispelling that was in my
post. If that makes you feel that I am uneducated, that is a valid
point, so I won't tell you about my primary & seconary education, my
college degree, and working for over thirty-five years. I should have
used "spell-checker." We may have differences about what is "moral." You may feel that I
that I am a "brainwashed, under-educated, health-care hater," but what I
care more about is the intrusion the goverment is having into my
ability to choose the best way for my treatment of being a T1."
See, I don't have to use spell check. I'm just clever naturally! I feel bad about you having been the person who HAPPENED to set me off on this subject. But, look, it's just not true that the government is going to intrude into your diabetes care. Where did you get this idea? Please send me a resource. I mean, that's just not part of the law. Period.
Adam: "Wow, Melissa is a very angry person..."
Guilty as charged! But if you're not angry, you're just not paying attention.
Adam: "tax payer funded abortions (this is not a stance on abortions, as I am
not getting political here. Just that one should pay for their own if
they choose to have one, because it is a very polarizing issue with VERY
strong feelings on both sides.)"
I don't believe in my funds going to stupid, pointless wars. But I'm sorry, that sucks for you that you feel like your dough is going to something you don't support. I mean that. I can see how that would rankle anyone. However, you just gotta remember, like it or not, it's legal, and legal or now, women are just going to keep getting abortions. It's just one of those sad realities.
Adam: "Everyone should pay their own way...for EVERYTHING. I worked hard and
had multiple jobs to pay my own bills when I was getting student loans
to pay my own way through a very expensive private university."
So why did you take that charity from before? And did your parents give you anything? You should have been paying rent to them from birth! Look, we're not talking about FREE HEALTH CARE here. We're talking about making everyone BUY health insurance so that all the people who don't have health care now and say, "Hey, I don't need it, I'm healthy" will join in a pool with all the people who, before, weren't covered because they have a pre-existing condition, so that EVERYONE's premiums go down. And, on top of that, the healthy person doesn't have to panic that he or she might break a bone, or get pneumonia, or come down with Type 1 diabetes -- or, more likely, type 2, but hopefully, with adequate health care, more people will avoid that. Everyone with insurance is already paying for the cost of people who can't pay getting brought into the emergency room with their skyrocketing costs. So lets all pay a little, huh? And get a big reward! And people won't get sick as much, because they'll see a doctor regularly instead of only coming in when it gets serious (and COSTLY). We ALL win! Yay! You too! You win! Aren't you happy?
Adam: "The vast majority of the 30-40 million people that they are saying will
now be covered...are not citizens or do not want insurance."
Not citizens?!? That whole thing got removed way back. But, hey, if immigrants want to pay into it, rad! The more the merrier, I say! That's how this whole thing works. And, yeah, they don't "want" insurance because they believe themselves to be healthy. So it's all well and good until someone loses an eye, and has to go to the emergency room. And then they'll wish they had insurance.
Adam: "We can leave the rhetoric out of this and just look at the facts."
Man, oh, man, Adam. And you were calling *me* angry! I always think it's funny when excited people accuse others of gettin' all excited! I mean, this IS coming from the guy who JUST SAID, "Yes, I know it is amazing to believe, but I still think we should
follow things like the 10th amendment, and the power of the Federal
Gov't to dictate that ANY citizen purchase ANYTHING does not exist (nor
should it)." I mean, that's got a touch of the rhetorical flourish, don't you think? Which is totally cool. Everyone has a right to a bit of emotionally charged bombastic speech, as long as they don't do it TOO much, because that's exhausting.
Anyway, it was fun chatting with you! Stay healthy! And check those blood sugars.