Ok so its been months now since Nobama has been elected. Has your health care coverage or plan been improved? Definately not. Just a bunch of "sweet nothings" whispered to us to inspire hope and gain a vote. There is no follow through. Look at Australia...it does not matter who you are...you get health coverage no matter what.
With Nobama it was all talk and no walk. Broken promises. It was all about a Vote!
[quote user="Wolf"]
Ok so its been months now since Nobama has been elected. Has your health care coverage or plan been improved? Definately not. Just a bunch of "sweet nothings" whispered to us to inspire hope and gain a vote. There is no follow through. Look at Australia...it does not matter who you are...you get health coverage no matter what.
With Nobama it was all talk and no walk. Broken promises. It was all about a Vote!
[/quote]
When you think about how our government works, it takes awhile for things to happen. Everyone has to agree or somehow compromise. It's a government for the people (and by the people) so it has to satisfy the majority of the population. Obama has only been in office (officially) 7 months, so of course no major legislation has gone through yet. Especially with the economic crises, there were some other pieces of legislation forced through first in order to (attempt to) boost the economy. I'm actually fairly impressed with how quickly Healthcare Reform seems to be moving through the phases. While it's not perfect yet, it's on the forefront at the moment, which will give it the momentum it needs to continue through all the different phases. You can call him "Nobama" but how quickly the bill is passed has nothing to do with the President. Once it leaves his hands, it has to go through several different rounds before it is passed by the House and Senate. It's a waiting game. Even though he's the President, Congress is going to decide what happens to the bill, if anything at all. I'm not saying you have to support him or like him (the President), but he will be in office for the next 3.5 years, so you may as well get used to the idea of having him as your leader.
C haha would you be saying the same thing if Bush was still in trying to make a change? I bet you wouldnt. I bet you would have some excuse against him on why things dont work or havent changed.
"it takes a while"...haha hes the president. he can end the country with the push of a button. he can change whatever he wants.
its Nobama. hes a big liar. he cant even produce a birth certificate right now. how can he be a president and have authority and how can people even rely on his words. hes not even legal to be a U.S. president.
How can his words be gold if he sold our country out like Judas for silver???
I always respected Bush a President. I'm fairly easy going, and I realize how difficult it would have to be to run a country (especially the most powerful and wealthy nation in the world). Because I have no specific political party affiliation, it doesn't matter to me if you are Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, or whatever. It would be impossible for me to agree with 100% of the topics 100% of the time. No one is ever going to fully support one person for the entire 4 years they are in office. Eventually, they will say or do something you don't agree with. I didn't always agree with President Bush's policies or decisions, but I'm certain I'm not going to agree with everything Obama does either.
ANY president would have the power to supposedly "end the country with the push of a button," but if that was their intent, they wouldn't have been elected. He (not just Obama, but any president) can attempt to change whatever he wants, but we specifically put parameters in place to prevent giving the President sole power over everything. We are democracy, meaning no one person has all the power. That is why we have all the different parts of our government. Congress can override the President. Regardless of his birth certificate situation, he is still the person the majority voted for. If the President really had all the power you say he does, we would be living in a dictatorship, which is exactly what we fight against.
I think you need a refresher in government because the president can't just do as he pleases as you so seem to think. This is not an absolute monarchy. The bill must be introduced in Congress, go through committee, subcommittee, votes, etc before it even comes to the desk of the president. Obama doesn't have an "easy" button to press and just grant healthcare to all. I'm not entirely sure why you or people with your line of thinking assume that all problems should be fixed by now after a mere six months in office. The US gov't is not known for its effeciency or expedious nature.
As for the birth certificate, he was born in Hawai'i after it became part of the Union, therefore he is a US citizen and of course legal to hold the office he was elected to. I saw Lou Dobbs bring up this same point last week. If this is the fire opponents wish to light, it is going to be a sad one. He was elected in November and took his oath in January and at the end of July an issue of birth certificate comes out, that is barely worth printed words.
[quote user="Wolf"]
C haha would you be saying the same thing if Bush was still in trying to make a change? I bet you wouldnt. I bet you would have some excuse against him on why things dont work or havent changed.
"it takes a while"...haha hes the president. he can end the country with the push of a button. he can change whatever he wants.
its Nobama. hes a big liar. he cant even produce a birth certificate right now. how can he be a president and have authority and how can people even rely on his words. hes not even legal to be a U.S. president.
How can his words be gold if he sold our country out like Judas for silver???
[/quote]
Hmmm. Sounds like someone needs an american government class and to turn down the Rush Limbaugh.
First, the president can't pass any laws. That's what congress does. The president can only sign or veto bills that come to him. Granted, he/she does have a lot of influence, but can't do it until congress does it first. Of course he can take us into a ridiculous endless war if wants to, your friend Bush proved that. Well, supposedly congress had to help on that one too (and still is).
Second, come on, you're not buying the whole "not a US citizen" thing are you? That was fully played out in the election. McCain and Hillary Clinton had armies of people trying to dig up dirt on this guy. Don't you think if one of them couldn't find a birth certificate they would have brought it up? Why is Rush so hot on it now? Come on, you're smarter than that.
Lastly, I agree with Paul G's assessement. If it were only me, I wouldn't care. I have health insurance from a big company I know you've heard of and have had good health insurance for 20 + years. But what about the people like you with no health insurance? Do you deserve to just lump it? I think in this great country of ours it's a travesty that we care so little for our fellow citizens that we can't provide some level of medical care for all regardless of position. This may be a good start. I wish we could get in what Canada and France have.
That said, I also agree with those of you who worry that the rope may be connected to an anchor. This is my greatest fear of this too. Should be interesting in September to see what comes of all fo this.
[quote user="Wolf"]
its Nobama. hes a big liar. he cant even produce a birth certificate right now. how can he be a president and have authority and how can people even rely on his words. hes not even legal to be a U.S. president.
[/quote]
Even if he was born in Kenya (which he wasn't), he still has ever right to run and be president. His Mother was an American.
Never thought a constitutional law class would come in handy at a T1 forum. End of subject for me :)
Haha, Vegan made me laugh :o)
I think this is a great conversation! I don't think we need to beat Wolf over the head with our mini-government lessons, but I do like hearing everyone's opinion on such an important topic. Not everyone will agree, but that's what makes it interesting :o)
C,
One minor correction to your statement - it is a common misconception, but we are not a democracy. America was founded as a republic. I think, for a number of people, this may be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efacebook%2Ecom%2Fposted%2Ephp%3Fid%3D1827632247%26share%5Fid%3D229651210314&feature=player_embedded
Cheers!
A-D
(It really is becoming the Juvenation Government class, isn’t it??? LOL)
Thanks! I obviously don't know my American History. :o)
A-D,
Thank you so much for posting this! I love learning more about government and this is very helpful for understanding what is happening around us.
Here's my two cents. Get RID of the insurance racket. It's a greedy, nasty game that they play. I have lived it. Another thing...malpractice premiums have helped to skyrocket health care costs. And T2 is a cruel, vindictive disease. I just watched it kill my mother in law. I can't shake the image of her suffering from my mind. She had mammary cancer (I think that one passes) as well. Start talking about obesity, and people's ugliness really comes out. Go to Yale University's site. Look up attribution-based discrimination. Yeah, education can go a long way...but it's funny how prevalent T2 is in rural communities...right alongside with cancer...all of those people forced to drink and eat from the soil which is pervaded with toxins...spray away to get the crops and let the people who live there suffer. And it's easy to tell someone...walk around the block. It's not easy to lose weight when you have no options other than the cheapest which is also, more often than not, garbage. As a T1, I used to resent the T2's that would walk up to me and say thoughtless things. Don't get me started on the morbidly obese medical receptionist who told me that my 7.9 A1C was "better than you usually get." Ugh. She's real proud of herself because she got a lap band surgery and stopped having to take insulin. There are moments when I want to strangle her. I think the insurance companies are, as a rule, out to make a buck off of sick people. There's the problem. Any time you insert the word, "Competitive" into medicine, any time business models are propped up as a "proper" solution, the result is people being violated. I try to stay calm about it, but it's not pretty in SC. Good grief...I'm 54 and have a 54 carb warning. Ugh. Excuse me...I have to go down some more carbs. I truly hope I haven't offended anyone with this. It's just not been an easy summer. Please forgive me if I have. I meant nothing personal.
Ok so next question, has anyone read the 1018 page bill in it's entirety? I am just getting through the 35 page summary and even though I worked with attorneys for 8 years and am not a complete idiot it is fairly daunting language. My uneducated opinion/thought is that this scares the heck out of me...sort of the anchor idea but perhaps some good may come of it.
[quote user="Colbymama"]
Ok so next question, has anyone read the 1018 page bill in it's entirety? I am just getting through the 35 page summary and even though I worked with attorneys for 8 years and am not a complete idiot it is fairly daunting language. My uneducated opinion/thought is that this scares the heck out of me...sort of the anchor idea but perhaps some good may come of it.
[/quote]Maybe we need to send Michael Moore out to DC with his bullhorn to read the entire thing to the folks who are going to be voting on it, a la Fahrenheit 9/11. NOONE reads the whole thing, not even the people who are amending and changing and watering down and tacking pet projects onto the thing, and then eventually voting on it.
Like him or not, at the end of Sicko, Michael Moore made a very good point. He basically asked the question, how much human potential and creativity would be unleashed in this country if so many people were not so AFRAID. Afraid of loosing their jobs and thus their medical insurance, afraid that a devastating illness like T1 might strike their family and destroy their financial well-being, afraid of not being able to get basic care for their sick child? Fear is a prison that far too many of us live in, regardless of economic position.
There seems to be a general misperception among Americans that in the 1770’s we were a bold group of rebels unanimously united in our efforts to throw off the shackles of tyranny and establish a Bold New World. The reality is that the colonists at that time were pretty evenly split; 1/3 for rebellion, 1/3 for loyalty to the Crown, and 1/3 UNDECIDED (and the media complains about voter apathy now). Even at the beginning of our nation, those privileged enough to participate in the formation of our government (a distinct minority) were just as divided as we are now, and politics was just a dirty and nasty then as it is now. Politics has never been a gentlemen’s game, here or anywhere else.
So, I guess my point is that we were founded on divisiveness and the will of a bare majority, and we have been gloriously following the precedent ever since. Democracy (or more correctly a Democratic Republic) is a messy and chaotic business. Anyone who’s read their American History (and I ain’t talking about School Board approved textbooks), knows this. The best we, The People, can do is vote for those individuals we feel will do the best job, keep in touch to let them know our opinions, and hope that what we end up with is better than what we had. Our system of checks and balances works BECAUSE it slows down the process, thus (usually) preventing a single branch or entity from grabbing too much power. Slow and steady is a pretty good sign that things are moving along as they should.
Long live the Democratic Republic of The United States of America!
And you all though I was just a sweet, mild-mannered T1 mom :)
Mo
BTY, Wolf, Bush would never be trying to make any kind of reform, because he’s a CONSERVATIVE. “A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward." - FDR
Up to this point I did not even want to say anything on this particular forum because, YIKES, look out! Anyway, now I want to say Thank You MO! Exactly! Thank you for eloquently stating everything that I would like to say!
I know law and politics more than you all think. I dont bother going in to detail and aruguments on what i think about obama and this policy. i know i would be banned from the forum for my opinion. my politics are very far right.
I love Jefferson's second inaugural address. Monique, THANK YOU from me as well. I can only be glad that the dreaded, horrendous, AMERO hasn't snuck its way into this thread...that usually follows quickly, along with a Libertarian rant. Some of the discussions I am privy to (and yes, there is a pun there) down here in the "Patriotic" South (bleagch) are hideous...
According to some, I am just one a'them tree huggin' pinko liberals. It's crazy, mad, insane, to think for even a second that Social Darwinism isn't the Way To Go. No one bothers having conversations any more, except when forced to do so...it's always, "This is MY opinion...I have a right to it..." almost as though it would be possible, if other opinions were actually listened to and explored, rob someone of their belief...
Maybe if a belief is so vulnerable to "attack" that it can't be calmly discussed...it isn't worth having.
And wasn't Franklin a strange, strange man?
In "discussions" like these about politics and religion no one really listens and considers the other point of view. And for certain, no one changes their mind. So, in my opinion, it's a futile waste of time. I only hope and pray that in the end those human beings with honest, good intentions and compassion for their fellow man will triumph over greed, corruption and evil.
there is ALWAYS the possibility for change
[quote user="C"]
there is ALWAYS the possibility for change
[/quote]
Agreed. Nothing wrong with questioning policy and having intellectual debate. The nonsense is usually brief.