50/50: Basal to Bolus?

My pump rep told me (along with my endo,etc.) that my basal to bolus ratio should be 50:50. But I've noticed on days when my numbers are tighter and I eat a lot better (i.e. less carbs, more veggies, etc.) my ratio ranges more from 80:20 to 60:40. I think I use a weird amount of basal, because to achieve a 50:50 ratio I have to eat like 250 carbs, when on a good day I eat around 100 (so it's insane efforts to double up on carbs when my endo gets on my back for having "off" ratios).

I'm curious what others' experiences with this are? Should I just ignore this ratio? (on Paradigm 722)

HI Alyssa,

You know what? I have never heard of this, however my bolus/basal ratio is about 50/50. Strange. I take an average of 23 units a day and my basal takes up 12 units of those units.

On a normal day, my basal:bolus ratio is about 50:50, and I did hear my endo comment on how that's good at one of my appointments, but she never said why. But like you, on some days it's more along the lines of 70:30.

I'm not sure the reasoning either Alyssa but I have read anywhere from 60:40-40:60 is good if it works. 

the reason for this is because, for most people, for most diets, if the carb ratios and basal rates are "good" the total insulin comes out ~about~ 50/50 (basal:bolus)

it's not to be taken literally, it's a guideline. it's not an absolute, it is an average of average averages.

I had excellent control (a1c 6.4%) with basal - to - bolus ratio of  25 75.  what did this mean?  well it means that with respect to the average, my carb ratios were too high and my basal rate was too low.

I re-checked these numbers and found out that in fact... my carb ratios WERE too high.  for 6-7 months I was on a regular routine, I ate pretty much the same meals and the same amounts at each meal, and I was taking too much bolus, for my carbs, and then too little basal to offest an overdose at meal time.  My numbers were great, but it's still not perfect pump tuning.

the only real thing that was not good for me was these 2 things: if I fasted, my blood sugars would rise.  If I varies my meals, my blood sugars would be more unpredictable. 

So I started there, and re-cast my basal rates, then re-figured my ratios and now on any given day I am somewhere between 40-60 to 60-40 and I have a much more flexible pump program.  I can fast, I can have 100 carbs for breakfast, and the outcomes are very much more predictable than before (and that's all).

cheers!

i'm 60/40 most days (bolus to basal). higher when my blood sugars are elevated. i have no idea what the science is behind that, but i'm not sure if i've ever been 50/50. my basal used to be a LOT more than my bolus, but it's kind of reversed the last few years.

also remember your brain needs 130-140g CHO minimum to function properly daily. try not to go below that. (i'm not saying you're going to die or anything; i'm just talking about functioning at 100% capacity)

[quote user="C"]

i'm 60/40 most days (bolus to basal). higher when my blood sugars are elevated. i have no idea what the science is behind that, but i'm not sure if i've ever been 50/50. my basal used to be a LOT more than my bolus, but it's kind of reversed the last few years.

also remember your brain needs 130-140g CHO minimum to function properly daily. try not to go below that. (i'm not saying you're going to die or anything; i'm just talking about functioning at 100% capacity)

[/quote]

 

Seriously? I didn't know that. At the end of the school year last year I was cutting it around 50-75 grams a day. No wonder I started flunking tests :P

yes seriously :o)

that's why we typically recommend 45-60g per meal and 15g per snack. 45g per meal = 135g min per day.

Really? I average like 20 in the morning, 40-50 for lunch, about 15 for snack because it's usually an apple, and then 30ish for dinner.

you can play around with it a bit. it doesn't HAVE to be 45 at every meal and 15 at every snack. if you're feeling sluggish or not up to par, you can try adding a little snack in there somewhere to give your brain a boost. you can experiment and see how it does.

your body needs food about every 4-6 hours for optimal performance. but like i said, you can try messing with the CHOs at different points in the day. you can aim for 130 one day and see how you feel. if you're worried about the extra calories per day 130g of CHO only equal 520 calories.

I hate trying to figure out food :P :P Today I had... 130 grams.

nice job :o) you met the goal and didn't even realize it.

That's strange. I always seem to feel better when I eat less carbs than normal (about 140-150/day).

That makes me effecient :) :) Huzzah for pizza :P

you're still reaching the minimum at 140/150g. especially since you're both young, it's important to make sure you are getting enough energy throughout the day. 

type of carbs could be playing a factor too. simple carbs (the kind that spike and drop your blood sugars quickly - like fruit, table sugar, juice, pop, candy...) can make you feel sluggish because of the quick rise in BGs. complex carbs (things like grains and starchy veggies) have a slower release in the glucose, so while BGs still rise it's more controlled and they rise slower over time, leaving you less symptomatic.

I feel very energized when I have around 90-100 carbs/day. I was counting for a while when I was doing that log thing on here, but stopped. Maybe I'll start counting again.

One thing I do try to focus on is the quality of food. So like instead of eating chips after school, I'll have a granola bar or apple. The carbs are relatively the same but the nutrional make-up is different.

I agree with you, Alyssa. I've been trying to cut out those kinds of snacks. I usually have tuna or cheese and turkey with crackers with lunch, along with some fruit/veggie, and occasionally some yogurt. And I try to keep my after-school snack light. Like today, I had a banana.

fat and protein are also energy sources, so you may be feeling energized from those. your brain will only except glucose for energy (it will also take ketones, but we know those are bad), so you need the CHOs for minimum body function. if you have a higher ratio of protein and fat than carbs, you may feel energized but they aren't as efficient in bodily function as carbs are.

CHO counting is necessary, but it is a good way to see if you're staying "on track" with your own meal planning or diabetes care or whatever you want to call it.

alyssa, you are exactly right. by eating things like apples and granola bars you are getting more "bang" for your carb. those foods are "nutrient dense" meaning you are getting a lot more nutrition for few calories. things like fruits and veggies top the list. other nutrient dense foods are whole grains, fish (salmon, tuna), and low-fat milk products (as long as they don't have a lot of extra sugar and sodium).

the important thing to rememer is to ENJOY your food. too many people have taken the fun out of food. food is necessary to live, so we might as well have fun while we're doing it :o) don't force yourself to eat foods you hate just because you think they are healthy. and don't skip out on foods you love because you think they are unhealthy. it's important to find a balance with food. love it - that's the main message :o)

LOL I need to be so much healthier :P

I don't eat a lot of protien or veggies.

I can't even remember what I ate today LOL